Why we can’t regulate Google, etc:
Because of useful idiots like @conservancy legitimising them by being sponsored by them.
Me: Google is a surveillance capitalist that makes billions tracking and profiling you. They are a threat to our human rights and democracy. We just regulate them.
Policymaker: you must be mistaken, they’re the good guys. Look, here they are allowed to sponsor CopyLeft Conf with the FSF logo displayed proudly next to theirs.
Some of the foundations not only take Google's money, but also let Google dictate what to do. GNOME has this rule for the Board of Directors:
"Keep confidential discussions private. This includes legal discussions or conversations with the Advisory Board." Google is in the "Advisory" Board.
@aral @brainblasted @neoncipher @bob so, keep in mind that Geary was started pretty much as a GMail client **for** GNOME, maintained outside of it (by the now dead Yorba). Its generic IMAP/SMTP support is indeed a bit of an afterthought.
Geary was later adopted by GNOME, and since then Michael has been working hard on making it better.
The issue you link to even states the plan for dropping that Google special preference.
Particularly hilarious when you consider that Yorba's *primary goal* of writing Geary in the first place was to wean people off web mail services by providing a better user experience.
Aral, you know where I stand on this and you know that Geary lists GMail first has nothing to do with some deep corporate conspiracy. So I'd appreciate it if you'd stop shitting on the work that I and other contributors put into the app in our spare time. Thanks.
@mjog @mathieu @brainblasted @neoncipher @bob Yes, Michael, I’m the problem here by criticising legitimisation of surveillance capitalists. I’m not shitting on your work (it’s great work, you’re an amazing developer, I’m in awe), I’m criticising your ethics.
I’ll leave it here. If I had to explain to every person in the mainstream individually why I oppose surveillance capitalists, I would get nothing else done.
@mjog @mathieu @brainblasted @neoncipher @bob It’s clear that GNOME considers Google and other surveillance capitalists to be entirely acceptable. They’re on your advisory board and they have first class support.
It is what it is.
If GNOME opposed surveillance capitalism, there would be privacy warnings and it would try to lead people towards ethical alternatives.
Anyway, like I said, I’m done here.
@bob @aral historically, companies on the advisory board have had very few impact on the direction of the project, as the Foundation only helps with logistics, it doesn't set the direction, takes technical decisions, etc…
This might change now that the Foundation has a developer employee, we will see.
At the same time, companies have much more power by just hiring developers, so the Foundation having its own employee also helps against that.
@aral @mathieu @bob @neoncipher @brainblasted @laura you got go for a regular donation subscription and get your friends to do it. Just like in politics if there are a lot of donors the project gets money. But just like the advisory members, you don't get a say in the technical direction of the project just to be clear.
Exec=/usr/bin/chromium-browser --app=https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0 --user-data-dir=.config/chromium-gmail
When I was using GNOME I could easily access my Gmail account from a browser. You don't need a standalone app for that. The reason why I stopped using GNOME is that it keeps pushing some hidden corporate agenda, using corporate money. I care about my privacy and freedom more that I care about interface usability because I know how dangerous surveillance capitalism is. Exploiting non-tech-savvy people who have no idea about how modern tracking works is a shame.
It's the call-out culture, purity-politics, very much outrage-driven, circular firing squad (and thus *very* FAANG-like in its engagement qualities) to which you are subjecting @conservancy and GNOME that hurts.
We're supposed to be doing better than that, here. Please do so.
There was a long discussion about that 5 days ago:
In short: GNOME has Google in their “Advisory board”. Their conversations are strictly private (GNOME has that as a rule). Google gives money and GNOME implements integration with Google services, refusing to include alternative privacy-friendly solutions. All that goes without any warning about privacy violations for the users.
@aral mentioned it in his article:
And the reasoning for not integrating Fastmail specifically is that they want to do something a bit more generic with it. Because they're one of the few eMail providers which implemented for allowing them to download these settings.
If you want something more privacy protecting then that, it requires more effort.
But I don't think it's because of Google's influence or a desire to push an agenda that we have this. If it was, GNOME Web would be very different.
GNOME's simply trying to deliver what they think people expect.
Thus, can we agree that GNOME will not protect people from Google (because why would you protect people from a thing that isn’t harmful and is – moreover – advising you?)
Can we agree that that is a problem?
@aral @neoncipher @mjog @bob I can agree that the GNOME foundation doesn't appear to see Google as (at least too much) of a problem. Though I hear they really don't have that much off an influence over their projects.
And that I prefer an approach of using standards to improve your experience BEFORE you resort to integrations. Let that heavily influence your designs. But I won't vilify anyone for doing otherwise.
I wonder if the anonymous donor who pledged $1M donation to the GNOME Foundation is aware that “The GNOME Foundation is disconnected from every day development on GNOME”. They must be pissed right now. 😮
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