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Looking into OpenCollective… first impressions:

Pros:

* I like the model
* Open source (nice)
* No trackers on site/source (nice); trackers in docs because they’re using Gitbook but that’s not the end of the world

Cons:

* Paypal seems to be required for fiscal hosts; based on past experience don’t want to give them access to my bank account.
* I’m worried about the angel investment; they seem to be going down the VC road – so what’s the exit?
* This is worrisome: docs.opencollective.com/help/i

@aral

It's important to see where people speak from. Reading the «founder's manifesto» on medium [1] is interesting from this point of view. In short, he wants to disrupt the civilian movement by applying startup methods.

Which means «Let's monopolize and privatize common goods and collective energies» and «I hope someone buys us if that works».

So, no. Thank you. Let's not build the Uber of X, the Facebook of Y, the Netflix of Z. That slippery slop sucks.

[1] medium.com/open-collective/the

@al @aral Very much agree. This is more of the same old techno-utopianism that we've seen for years with a smattering of openness thrown in as a consolation prize.

Hi @aral I contacted snowdrift @wolftune but they weren't sure if they were going to use it. Any news on this Aaron? Thx

@gert

I have in various cases brought @snowdrift to attention of @aral and @laura and I'd love their support/encouragement/awareness more.

We share their concerns about OpenCollective, but acknowledge that it serves some valuable functions and stands out in positive ways too. For additional perspective: wiki.snowdrift.coop/market-res

But Snowdrift.coop is partial competitor to OpenCollective rather than a potential user. That said, we're also potential partners.

@gert @aral @laura

Snowdrift.coop is still working to get fully-launched. It's harder when we refuse VC funding direction and are instead committed to ethical ideals and non-profit cooperation. That said, we keep pushing slowly forward.

Follow @snowdrift for news, join us at community.snowdrift.coop/ and see the past blog articles: blog.snowdrift.coop/

Currently recruiting additional advisors and core volunteers…

@wolftune Hey Aaron, made a note to take a proper look. Happy to share my thoughts if you like.

@gert @snowdrift @laura

@aral @gert @snowdrift

Of course, thoughts are *always* welcome.

Furthermore, you and @laura are actually in my list of people I know are aligned and deep-thinking enough that you're on the brainstormed lists of people to further connect with as we (re)build Board of Directors / advisors etc.

And your projects are somewhere on our lists of potential recruits for early-adopters to get listed for funding (but not likely that early given international difficulties).

Cheers

@wolftune @aral @snowdrift @laura I'm in the EU like Aral and I'm interested if there is no VC involvement. My interest may extend to XR, like with the joinmobilizon.org/en/ project ATM.

@gert FWIW, several of our volunteer team are also in the EU. And like anything, the details about moving money around is just complex and is one of many challenges that take time and effort to work through.

We currently use Stripe with a proprietary-JavaScript warning on the *one* page it applies. We're not touching or interested in cryptocurrency stuff at this time. And we haven't worked through all the international legal/financial questions yet.

@aral @snowdrift @laura

@aral @wolftune
Unfortunately there are interesting fediverse projects that do not get funding, like fediQuest by
@MatejLach

Some stars in the fediverse seem to get some funding from Samsung (no less) but perhaps we do need an OpenCollective for all the rest.

@aral As a patron of many things creative and open source, I really don’t want to manage individual micro-subscriptions. With Flattr you as a patron has one monthly subscription and budget and they divide the funds among the things you support. The threshold for me to choose to support some creative, open source project, or website I like is much lower as it takes a single click on my part. Low fees as its one sub. for everything. Not open source, but a good business model and good European privacy policy.

@da @aral Wasn't Flattr bought by Eyeo Gmbh which has Adblock Plus? I really don't like their business model.

@jlelse @aral They’re indeed owned by them. It’s not a relationship I’m happy with. However, AdBlock isn’t Flattr and visa versa.

@jlelse @aral @jlelse —and you should claim your blog and domain names with Flattr. See how much you like their business model when your visitors offer up free money when they’re browsing on your site. No tracking, widgets, or scripts to install on your site; just prove ownership.
flattr.com/creators/signup

@da @aral I once had a flattr account (which didn't brought me a single cent), so I deleted it

@jlelse @aral They changed how the service works a year back. You now install a browser extension that collects browsing data and they then auto-contribute your subscription to the participating websites, YouTube, GitHub, ++ accounts you visited in a month. (Collected data is deleted after 3 mo.; only used to calculate contribution shares.) Reoccurring Flattrs and browsing based Flattrs are taken from the same monthly budget. As a Flattr contributor I’m paying for a bunch more websites than I would w/o it.

@vanecx @aral

-> We are a US based C corp registered in Delaware.

Tax haven spotted. It's a no go.

@aral re link: isn’t that just because it’s an open source platform? What’s the issue with the queries being documented?

@ricardojmendez It’s the nature of the queries they’re running on their closed database that I was commenting on.

@aral They seem pretty innocuous and all related to public features: they list backers for a collective, admins of a collective need to be notified of things, they send out newsletters. 🤷‍♂️

Only thing that surprised me there was that there's some sort of event support. I wasn't aware.

@aral
I suppose the automated address-gathering is part of the "full transparency" thing they're doing.
I'm fine with corporations or foundations making their funding public, but small-scale private donors? But then again: large-scale private donors. But what scale is large?

I get a bit nervous at the thought of putting money through it.

As for ROI: Those 5-10% could become a lot, and that's on top of all the data, incl. permission to spread it far and wide.

@aral Cons: VC funding, take up-to 10% share. Pros: EU, popularity, fiscal host option. I'm a big fan of @Liberapay Pros: French. Non-profit. Open source. Funded by crowdfunding. Cons: smaller, no fiscal host, they also dependend on PayPal and Stripe because there not many payment providers that support crowdfunding. They used Mangopay with wallets at first but got booted because of a complaint. Kisskissbankbank is another Mangopay user that you could look into.

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