Hello, welcome to Linux, here are the apps you installed using Snap. Here are the apps you installed using Flatpak. Here are the apps you installed using apt. Here are the apps you inst- wait, where are you going… what’s wrong? WE WERE JUST GETTING TO KNOW EACH OTHER!!!
@aral bundler, pip and gem feel ignored!
@aral Welcome to Linux, where installing apps gets reinvented every five years.
(Also Python, Ruby, and Node).
Unfortunately, it looks like most effort is going into replacing RPM with Flatpak and APT with Snapcraft.
(Flatpak's "decentralised" argument seems a bit moot given everyone's standardizing on Flathub!)
@datenteiler @aral Package managers and the management of them by the distributions are part of the problem. Old software. By distributions patched software. Developer of the software have no control about it. A Developer must create binaries for a wide range of distributions.
Linus talked about it in the past .
Because of that we need solutions like Flatpak or better stable API/ABI over all distributions.
: https://youtu.be/5PmHRSeA2c8 (Minute 4:45)
@aral welcome to macOS, here are the apps installed using Mac App Store. Here are the apps installed from DMGs. Here are the apps installed from PKGs (try uninstalling those!). Here are the apps installed from Homebrew. Here are the apps...
@aral Well, at least we didn't end up with a *single* gatekeeper there yet...
@aral oh and don't forget, oftentimes your Flatpak and Snap apps can't talk to or look like the apps you installed using the distro package manager because they're "sandboxed". who needs to upload files in Discord anyway?!
@aral I know these 700 solutions for one problem are sometimes really annoying. But keep in mind: Software ecosystems work just as natural ecosystems, diversity brings stability. I one fails you, you can use another. That's one big advantage in contrast to non-free systems!
@aral when I look for popular software on ubuntu's software-thingy, I get double results for them. The list gives me no way to discern them. I know I need to look for "snap" vs "universe" on the detail page, but that is really not what we should thrive for.
@aral The main issue with the FLOSS community is why distributions like Pop!_OS (or communication protocols like XMPP) are recommended in the first place.
Reasons to run Linux distributions: the Linux kernel
Decent Linux distributions for beginners: Ubuntu and Fedora
@aral And we should just stop pretending that GNOME is made with non-developers in mind; just look at Google Maps: the way Google Street View tells you if there are pictures somewhere looks more like a game design hint in Animal Crossing or Ni No Kuni than like a software toggle.
Sure, GNOME looks better than Windows 10, but is that an ambition? #UX
@redbookworm Bah, the Linux kernel is for wusses. I assemble my kernel from scratch every morning using titanium punched cards before my first cup of coffee.
1) Cultural dichotomy-shaping segregated environments make social reproduction easier, so children of the bourgeoisie go to prestigious schools/universities
2) Some people don't have a place in these cultural groups => because of cultural isolation, they try to help where they hope to be needed (in political struggles, including FLOSS)
3) They start imitating those who've actually read the specs, to get (from a public) the same reactions as them
@aral So, to get straight to the point these people are harmful to their causes but they also die in the real world.
For me, correlating stuff has always been a matter of survival.
The most annoying about all these different formats is not that it are different formats, but the bloat! This is also a reality on both Windows and in a lesser extent Mac. Developers just want to distribute the complete circus. I saw Snaps and Flatpaks of hundreds of megabytes!
In the past I was always saying to Windows users; 'Linux packages are very small, because they share the same libraries.'. So you need much less disk-space. I'm afraid I can't use that reason anymore.
@aral Plus I don't see any problems with deb's and rpm's. Oh they are out of date? Well fix that part. Don't re-invent the wheel.
@aral And there are many more problems with the Linux desktop in general .
@timkrueger Hey Tim, thanks for the link but can’t seem to load the site.
@aral It works on this side. Maybe you can reach the archived version ?
@aral don't forget manually installed .debs which you can easily hunt with a `dpkg -S /usr/bin/some-app` :-)
@isagalaev Oh indeed, how can one forget such a thing? ;P
Still miles better than windows.
Here have a non-standard installer (that sometimes even tries to install adware).
Technically there's msi, but who bothers to use that anyway?
Oh you want updates? If you're lucky there's a built in updater. If not, you're on your own. You wanna know where the application stores it's data? Good luck finding out which AppData folder it is again. Oh yeah, and then there's also windows app store....
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