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Wish I could fucking markup code in Mastodon 馃が

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@aral I do add backslashes etc., in the remote hope that sometime in the future it happens.

@panais @aral

mastodon is opensource and open for contribution, you know?
build it yourself or make someone build it for you.

github.com/tootsuite/mastodon

@mk @panais Ah, I had no clue. Open sauce? So like ketchup?

@mk @aral Again: remote hope, sometime in the future.

And yes, github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/+

(maybe your message looked a little more contemptuous than intended?)

I'm going to the kindergarten now, Aral wait for me, I've got a new rake and shovel kit! :D

@mk did you actually "reply guy" who I think you did? I guess it really can happen to anyone 馃ぃ

Eugen has made it clear before that he won't accept markup support and not everyone wants or has the time to maintain a fork even if they are capable of doing so. Doesn't mean we can't complain though

@panais @aral

@aral That would indeed be an awesome feature! @Gargon@mastodon.social - do you think this is at all possible?

@FPinaMartins @aral There are already issues on Github and Gargon already said his opinion on it multiple times:

github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/

@booteille @aral
Well, that should teach me to do my research before tooting.
Sorry for the noise!
(And thank you @booteille for the reply!)

@sidd_harth0_5h4h @aral not exactly sure what Aral means in the original post -- like, full formatting with highlighting or just <code> monospace blocks with reasonable horizontal scrolling? Either way, I have never implemented that.

@aral

Wish I could fucking markup code in Mastodon

Glitch.soc has Markdown and it is awesome.

And yes, code blocks:

class Dog {
constructor(excitementLevel = 1) {
this.excitementLevel = excitementLevel
}

I'm so happy

Also
has
lists

numbered
too!

@dredmorbius @aral fyi doesn't come through in federation.

I'm working on an idea that might be a bit more universal though. I'm not sure if it will work yet.

@zens @dredmorbius About 11 years ago I suggested TwitterFormats to extend the semantics of Twitter using tweets themselves. Twitter axed annotations when it went full evil so nothing became of it. I feel the core idea has relevance for adding decentralised extensibility to the fediverse. (Don鈥檛 click any links to the Twitter formats site from that post, I relinquished the domain ages ago.)

ar.al/2807/

CC @Gargron

@aral @dredmorbius @Gargron my idea involves the reasonably working support of oembed/og on mastodon clients. I won't say much more than that, it'll spoil the surprise. (or spare disappointment if I never actually do it)i

@zens @dredmorbius @aral it does federate to services that can handle it. I see the markdown fine on my Pleroma instance.
@zens @dredmorbius @aral Pleroma's markdown federates. Please don't make something incompatible when we've had a solution for 2 years now
@zens @aral @dredmorbius Pleroma has markdown support that federates. Glitch+Soc also has Markdown that Federates.

Here is the post earlier in the thread from the toot.cat Glitch+Soc instance that renders properly as Markdown in Pleroma.

As you can see, we already have working federation for Markdown. Please keep any future Fediverse implementations compatible with ours.

@feld @aral @dredmorbius are you trying to tell me pleroma's implementation of activitypub should take precedence over the w3c?

@zens @aral @dredmorbius I don't think you understand what ActivityPub is. It does not define these types of things. This is at a much higher level than the base AP spec.
@zens other things ActivityPub also does not define:

- Chats (Pleroma has a realtime chats API that works over ActivityPub)
- Federated custom instance Emojis (created by Pleroma, adopted by Mastodon+others)
- Federated Emoji reactions (Also created by Pleroma, please ask Mastodon to implement it as well -- they're fantastic)

These are all constructed using the base tools that ActivityPub defines for servers to be able to speak with each other. If an ActivityPub message arrives with data the server doesn't know how to process, it just drops it. This is fine.

Now as for ActivityPub specs that are not really implemented, we have Honk sending READ activities to tell servers that a post has been read by the user, but nobody else (Pleroma, Mastodon, etc) has actually implemented that part of the ActivityPub spec yet.

@feld I'm honestly curious why you think I care. You think I should leave my instance because it doesn't support your proprietary features?

@feld You've read a post where I say I'm planning to build something that will be *more* universally supported, and you're worried whatever it is (you haven't asked) won't be supported by your non standard software?

@zens We have the most compatible ActivityPub implementation that exists. We're not non-standard.
@zens I don't think you know what "proprietary" means.

@feld @aral @dredmorbius I've read the spec. I know what's in it. it does, in fact, define these things.

@zens @aral @dredmorbius ok please show me where?

Here's the ActivityPub specs: https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/

Here's the ActivityStreams specs:
https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/

Where in these documents does it define that Create activities with a Note object must only be text/plain?

(it doesn't define this. at all.)

@feld

I just don't know
1. Who you think I am
2. what you think I am building
3. what you're trying to convince me to do or not do
4. what claim you think I am making about what's in the spec or not

I feel like I'm not even here and you're talking to a strawman. I could say anything and you'll just recite more pleroma features at me.

@zens We have a serious problem in the Fediverse with interoperability because the ActivityPub specs do not cover enough real world usage and the working group is disbanded. It requires the development communities to closely work together. I've only suggested that you please don't reimplement something that already exists. We've had enough issues with this. It makes the Fediverse worse when we don't work together towards common goals.

@feld
I just don't know
1. Who you think I am
2. what you think I am building
3. what you're trying to convince me to do or not do
4. what claim you think I am making about what's in the spec or not

I feel like I'm not even here and you're talking to a strawman. I could say anything and you'll just recite more pleroma features at me.

@feld Ah, now you're posting gifs because鈥.. ?

This is a weird fucking conversation. I mention I am building "something", go into no detail, and you've given me a giant salespitch that has zero to do with me, what I'm building, or anything I have said.

@feld You know, the thing I am building鈥 I'm not even using activitypub right? of course not.

@feld You've just jumped in and made all the assumptions. Why would you know?

@zens oh not even using activitypub?

good luck on making something "more universal"

ta ta for now
@zens It's pretty simple, let me provide the receipts

> fyi doesn't come through in federation

yes. it does.

> i'm working on an idea that might be a bit more universal though

yeah, no it won't be.
@zens @aral @dredmorbius other things ActivityPub doesn't define:

Polls

But we have federated Polls. How is that possible? :shrug:
@zens Are you making stupid defensive posts and pretending to be an expert on ActivityPub, then claiming Pleroma is proprietary software?

@feld Are you sure you're not talking about yourself?

@zens @aral @feld @dredmorbius Pleroma implements the standard, which says posts are HTML. Mastodon takes the HTML from the poster and modifies it, cleaning out the elements showcased above. Other AP implementations don't.

@ilja @aral @dredmorbius A large black rectangle that says "Not available", I'm awestruck by the interoperateyness of your instance.

@ilja @aral @dredmorbius ah yes, got it. All we have to do is take a screen shot of our rendered markup and post links to them.

@zens @aral @dredmorbius ? I don't get what you're trying to say honestly. You say that the markdown doesn't federate, but it does and I show you that it does. The reason why you don't see it on your instance isn't because it doesn't federate, it's because the software you use decides to not show it to you.

@ilja @aral @dredmorbius If you don't see my point, I guess the software you're using has decided not to show it to you.

@zens I wasn't aware of that.

What do or don't you receive? Using what server? Seems to be Mastodon, no?

Degredation strikes me as at least acceptable:

merveilles.town/@zens/10500557

What's your alternative?

@aral

@dredmorbius @aral mastodon simply strips the formatting. so do all the clients. the hack i want to try is to see how far i can go with oembed.

@dredmorbius @aral because html formatting inside a post is like html emails: unrestrained competition is a slippery slope to madness. but if you did want to post a nicely formatted and syntax highlighted code sample as an 鈥渁ttachment鈥 that rendered as html, i wanna test if that鈥檚possibke.

@zens I've got some sympathy with this PoV: tools can be abused, HTML or Markdown among them.

For now, at least, manual formatting makes Markdown something of a minority case. I don't know how long that will be the case.

I certainly appreciate the ability to use it to enhance the semantic context of my toots. Most especially emphasis and blockquotes.

Misuse ... should ultimately be treated as any other type of abuse. Preferably subject to stripping, blocking, and/or banning.

@aral

1/

@zens One view I have for the Web generally is to treat all capabilities as consideratiions extended by recipients: Visibility, markup, CSS, cookies / state, local storage, XSS, etc. Abuse of any given capability: revoke access.

I'd very much like to have a browser capable of doing this. Tools such as uMatrix are similar in general nature.

The key would be minimal caapabilities and some level of appropriate-use test by default.

@aral

2/end/

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