Bitcoin is just like using your card to buy something… if every transaction cost you ~$50 and used as much electricity as 1,000,000 VISA transactions (or more energy than the average US household uses in a month).


If you see anyone defending this, just tell them to fuck off. It’s the only response they deserve.

Following my own advice and simply telling anyone who defends Bitcoin to fuck off and blocking them at this point.

I’ve zero interest in engaging with “fuck you, I got mine!” ecocidal dickheads.

@moellus See any other cryptocurrency that doesn’t use proof of work mining (eg., Nano).

@aral 2 years ago one single bitcoin transaktion has consumption round about 800 KW/h.

happy to see that more than one source.

@aral Block the chains, stop wasting our time.

@aral Of course not, I was referring to the blockchain propaganda crowd. :)

@aral Economic bubbles such as the bitcoin bubble are fueled by policies such as what we're seeing right now: Massive monetary and fiscal stimulus inevitably leads to people spending huge amounts of resources on ridiculous wasteful things that look like they'll make a profit.

This isn't new. It happens every time. In the 1920s unprecedented lax monetary policy caused a boom in investment in farmland that didn't have access to water. That led to the environmental catastrophe known as the dustbowl and ultimately to the great depression. There are presently entire cities in china filled with buildings that are slowly degrading because of a bubble in real estate there. the 2007 financial crisis led to entire residential zones sitting half-built to this day.

But the problem is that it's win/win for the politicians. The politicians on the right get to have their economic growth fueled by bubble economies (remember that the first stimulus checks were sent out by none other than George W. Bush and financed by debt), and the politicians on the left get to have their cake and eat it too -- they get to spend money nobody has on whatever their pet cause de jour is, and they get to further ecological catastrophe they can then run against while simultaneously doing nothing meaningful against it because all their policy ideas come from the same lobbyists who are working on behalf of the companies making billions off of destroying the earth.

And the lobbyists aren't just whispering in the ears of politicians, they're whispering in your ears too. Where do you think your own mainstream ideas come from, the same ideas at the same time as a whole bunch of other people?

@aral I don't understand why one transaction would be so expensive. Why would bitcoin then be used in the first place - I mean nobody wants to loose so much money. A bitcoin transaction seems to make only sense then if, say, a transaction is about 5k $ minimum (=> 1% transaction cost). (as a note, I don't have bitcoins nor do I intend to use them)

@dr0i @aral that’s because bitcoin isn’t a currency, contrary to what the bros are saying, it’s a speculative commodity only ever used for its potential for hyper inflation. The bros don’t care nearly as much about cryptocurrency as they do about how many EUR and USD they could amass this way. Yes it’s funny, but the bros harping about « evil global banking » and « centralised fiat currencies » actually live for them.

And yes, the « transactions » (of which there are only a measly 6 per second currently) do involve unsanitary amounts of money.

@codeforchaos @aral Hm. Ok. Bitcoin seems then just a proof of concept, but it surely doesn't make sense for payment.

I still find it unbelievable that so many resources are put into bitcoin - it just seems to be doomed.
I see that many people are angry about banks and their power (although I don't know if it's really a good idea to not have a central bank to steer inflation), but bitcoin will not help them.

@dr0i @aral the cost of transactions depends on tools you use. Level 2 protocols such as Lightning Network nave near-zero transaction costs. L1 is like choosing to pay via SWIFT when you can use MasterCard. You can do it, but it's inefficient and too expensive. There is no limit on the amount of transactions per second, ~6 is just for base layer

@aral bitcoin was never a good idea. We had the same critiques about power consumption in 2010 when I was mining

@aral I'm not sure if the blackouts in China are caused by bitcoin mining, but it's a start to the end of this madness:

@johanbove @aral

it appears to be a consequence of the sort of accident that can happen in any coalmine (and occasionally occured in Britain during the 20th century), but it seems to have disrupted coal supplies to the extent the electricity generating network has to be shut down for safety (or else *very* bad stuff can happen involving big sparks and fire), which does hint at the sheer level of energy these mining organisations are using..

@aral Are PoS cryptocurrencies like Ethereum 2.0 any better?

@zubat Ethereum isn’t PoS yet. If/when it actually does move to PoS, sure.

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