“Surveillance capitalism” isn’t a corruption of (an otherwise virtuous) capitalism. It is a precise means of describing modern-day capitalism. Opposing it doesn’t mean simply opposing surveillance, it means opposing capitalism.

@aral It is a trade-off we need to manage. Without Capitalism there wouldn't have been Internet and Web. So you know we need the models to push the boundaries.

@EdwardTorvalds @aral the world wide web started as an academic project at CERN. the internet also started as a largely research oriented project between ARPA and some universities.

@EdwardTorvalds @rfox If by “success” you mean “gave us surveillance capitalism”, then yes :)

@aral @rfox by that I actually meant they gave you everything you are using to complain right now ;)
Internet, web itself, web browser, Android/iOS or whatever mobile you use :)

@aral and yes, various operating systems, laptops, desktops, wireless telecommunication, pretty much everything that originated in US, UK and other similar countries.

@EdwardTorvalds Well, then we’re back to where you started. Keep the capitalism, get rid of the surveillance. If you start a poll, just mark me down for that one. @aral

@EdwardTorvalds Not only is the limited choice a false dichotomy, you’re even restricted to both or none. Those restrictions are not really there – it’s just an invented scenario.

Keep the capitalism, remove the surveillance, monopolies with wealth concentrated in the hands of the few, globalism, and “too big to fail“.

There you go. Done. Easy peasy. @aral

@EdwardTorvalds @aral I’m also not sure why “they made some tools” should shield them from criticism? Peasants under feudalism received protection from their lord, does that mean that feudalism as a system was good for the peasants?

@rfox @aral nobody is above criticism. We need to fight against SC, but we still need to understand the achievements of capitalism compared to other systems.

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