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Just read a post asking Eugen to resign from developing Mastodon and I really have to ask: what are you folks smoking?
It’s his project. It’s open source. Fork it if you want to. But what kind of mind-blowing sense of entitlement drives you to think you can tell someone they should stop working on something they’ve built?
*smh*
@aral Yeah, asking for him to resign is going to stop the project dead. No one else has the know-how or motivation to drive it at large. Even the two well-known forks have minimal developer resources.
It's still not wrong to ask him to consider uses that are different from those of mastodon.social, and to lobby for features that may not fit his vision for future development of the software.
@galaxis @aral there is ~5.8k€/month or 70k€/year of drive here https://www.patreon.com/mastodon
Although that also has to pay for hosting and moderating mastodon.social. And probably other stuff. Still think it goes a pretty long way.
People do think mastodon.social should get better moderation, but mastodon.social also has to be shrunk...
@aral Most of us develop a resistance against the widespread f**king arrogance.
@aral If someone really doesn’t like his work, they could work on a whole new project that interacts fine with ActivityPub. It’s not like we don’t already have a few of those.
@aral I wonder if things like these are attempts to stifle progress. I think we're pretty susceptible to trolls and sabotage in that regard.
@aral I agree. Even though I disagree with his view on how users should use the software I just find the letter absurd.
@aral exactly, fork it and good luck but I'm pretty sure nobody will achieve what Mastodon did.
@aral a common story, as far as I noticed. A popular project grows "community leaders" who, while contributing pretty much nothing, start treating the founder as an oppressing dictator and campaign against him (it's usually "him"). "We don't need a BDFL" and all that stuff.
@aral Eugen has courted these people for ages. He doesn't deserve it, but he should not be surprised.
@aral I'm really out of the loop - what's the reason people want him gone?
@aral
Link please sir
@issdeinschnitzel
Thank you, somehow I always think things like this will be less dumb than they are. A blog on "seedy.xyz" is complaining about "sketchy" bitcoin VPS companies and some how that has anything to do with software they didn't build... Dumb on top of dumb. These types think they can tell everyone what to do.
@aral Any link on this? Is this all happening because of the iOS app not having a local timeline?
If so, who's forcing users to use that app? There's countless other clients for it if they'd like that feature.
@florian @aral it’s more political : i mean, the official app removes core features that the creator of the software doesn’t like anymore… it’s kind of bad omens for those who likes those features. The fear that local and federated timelines might not be there to stay is legitimate.
I don’t think it’ll go that far, but i’m convinced that Gargron has a biased pov on his software, based on his experience on one of the biggest instances. And he already showed that he wasn’t always a good listener…
TBH i’m not even using mastodon so i’m kinda not the best suited to talk about that. Or am i exactly for this reason ?
Like i said elsewhere, i’m pretty sure we could find a solution that suits both people using local timeline for thematic / community purposes, and people who think those are useless, trashy or overwhelming : groups.
Cross-instances federated thematic groups that you could join from any instance.
They’d even be better than local timelines even for small communities since they’d really be about one topic.
@florian @aral since he doesn’t seem to like those timelines but a large part of his users do i think’s it’s not absurd to ask for him to deliver. He’s the one wanting mastodon to rise and gain more users. Yet he doesn’t really listen to his userbase.
Not all folks here are developers, we can’t all just fork. And maintain the new software. He has the skills, the funds, and the human ressources.
@Guerin @florian I don’t have a problem with any of what you’ve articulated. However, raising the points you just did a world and a half removed from saying that someone who has built something should stop working on it because you don’t like how he’s building it. Which is what the open letter I read was saying.
@aral @florian not sure i understood the part with “a world and a half…” but to be clear i don’t think Eugen should give up his work. I just think it’s too bad he doesn’t listen a little more to feedback when it doesn’t suit his views. But like you said, his project his rules. Even though great things can appear when taking some distance and confronting pov.
I hope this “drama” won’t stay just that but turns out to be an opportunity for an even better software :)
@aral I don't feel like he has to *resign* but should seriously change his attitude...
I've seen so much times of him "I don't like this feature, it won't be there", even if it doesn't cost him much effort to add beyond a review.
Do we *really* have to make 1337666 forks just because 1 guy doesn't want a particular feature?
@finlaydag33k What’s the alternative? You whip him until he implements it?
@aral Him not being an asshat? :^)
Seriously... it takes a few moments of his time to review a PR and press "merge".
️ 
@aral As soon as you have users who depend on you, it's no longer "your project" alone. Continuing to ignore them and do user-hostile things makes him a tyrant.
If you turn Better into an ad farm, people aren't going to just say "oh well that's Aral's right" and keep using it.
@mdhughes And no one is forcing anyone to use anything.
It’s a huge leap from “you can’t force anyone to use what you make” (agreed, entirely) to “stop working on your app because I said so” (which is what the open letter demands).
@aral People are very invested in Mastodon already. The only alternative is a lot of effort to move to new software with risks.
So asking him to stop being a tyrant is the first "do less harm" step.
@aral It worked when they tried it with the Free Software Foundation.
@mattskala Not the same thing at all.
@aral @mattskala
can i ask why do you see such a profound difference pertaining to the point you made?
@welt You’re telling someone who built something that he should stop working on it. What exactly gives you the right to do so?
A project that depends on its lead developer's opinions to accept PRs perhaps has a really unhealthy governance.
@aral so its inactive for over year. now i know why he doesnt reply to mod issues... (even on email)