This really sucks (read thread). And has told me more than I need to know about CalyxOS. Won’t be looking into it any further as a potential alternative (microG is a deal-breaker for any longer-term solution anyway).

@aral this toot reminded me how much i miss being on android where i could use fedilab to automatically convert to nitter links and now im sitting hours waiting for this to load on borderline DSL data speeds

@aral wow, that's terrible...
What's the problem with MicroG, though?
As far as I understand it's the best thing we have now until either regulations fix the Android ecosystem to stop it's over-reliance on Google (unlikely) or until we can move to Linux phones as daily drivers (hopefuly much more likely)

@silmathoron signature spoofing is security hole. GrapheneOS’s sandboxed Google Play services approach is the correct one.

@aral @silmathoron Sure, if any random app could do signature spoofing it'd be an issue, but the MicroG build of LOS doesn't let just any app spoof it's signature.

There's also the issue of resource usage. My 7 year old S5 is almost unusable with Google play services, but is fairly snappy with MicroG. Of course it'd be better to full AOSP without play services or MicroG, but I'm not quite there yet. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@aral @silmathoron GrapheneOS with Fairphone would be pretty ideal, but it seems that won't happen. Here's hoping Fairphone 4 would be better suited, because buying planned obsolecence Pixel devices is not a thing I'll ever do.

@aral wow based on how you mentioned microg and me not seeing the tweet was from graphene i thought it was gonna be something like “yeah calyxos uses microg and we have no plans to change it” because I was about to write up a whole blog about how calyxos is like the “ok im new to this privacy stuff be gentle” of roms and graphene is the “there are federal agents living in my walls” level of privacy but wow this is so much worse

@aral are we sure it is actually the calyxos folks? GrapheneOS does have a lot of haters, but my read on it is that this does not overlap with the actual core calyxos devs. Of course the haters would look for an alternative, and thus part of them end up using calyxos, but as far as I can tell the core team is not involved.

Then again, I have used neither grapheneOS nor calyx, I just run lineageos.

@mvgorcum I’m pretty sure the GrapheneOS folks know who is attacking them (goodness knows we did when we first started out – and it wasn’t Silicon Valley douchebags but gatekeeping sons of bitches in the “free and open” world who didn’t like that we didn’t follow their holy playbook.)

@aral I used CopperheadOS for about 6 months on this same Nexus 5X I am using right now with /e/ installed. I was happy with it and was disappointed with the events that occurred (what, 4 years ago now?). I have continued to follow Graphene OS since then but I don't have the required hardware to use it. I didn't know Techlore existed until a few months ago, so my perspective is entirely outside whatever tiff is going on between them.
When Daniel left the CopperheadOS project he completely destroyed the signing keys for the builds. That meant there was no possibility of any future updates being applied to the current installed ROMs, including my own. If Copperhead were to continue a complete wipe and reinstall of the ROM would be necessary to start using a new ROM with new signing keys. This was disappointing to me and after a few months of watching the battle rage between Daniel and his former partner I decided to move on. I was not sure if there would ever be any more releases on this project. I found /e/ and started using that.
So I can imagine there may be some pissed off users out there that don't like Daniel. He does seem to overreact to things, even people just asking basic questions get him riled up.

@aral It all seemed very toxic to me even 4 years ago so I just stayed away. I don't know anything about this tiff with Techlore or whether Daniel's accusations are true, I can only say that my own experience was disappointing that Daniel would choose to sabotage the CopperheadOS project. He also took his tiff with his former partner very public. Maybe he felt betrayed and that was his way of expressing his frustration. But I found it very cribge-worthy, honestly.
So @aral I encourage you to look deeper into this tiff if you feel the desire to before making judgement. Some Android ROM projects are more security focused and some are more privacy focused. There is room for all, people have different security and privacy needs. It is a shame for there to seemingly be discord and division in what should be an area of open source project that need to collaborate and allow for different perspectives and solutions.
Just my personal take on this.

@aral I try to steer clear of these sorts of things so I don't know much about this particular controversy. That said, all of my (admittedly limited) interactions with Nick from Calyx over the past few years have been positive so at least based on my personal experience something seems off about this.

@aral You should take that info from twitter with A LOT of salt. I have been sitting in both #GrapheneOS and #CalyxOS for quite some time and it simply isn't as simple as GrapheneOS claims it to be. Meanwhile, strcat (the dev lead of GrapheneOS) deletes all unwanted responses from a lot of concerned users in the matrix room and has done so a lot in the past, also calling those people "trolls" too. It's both ridiculous and sad.


The ongoing battle on both sides is very sad and in my eyes it's a waste of energy.

I say this as a happy GrapheneOS User.
I don't know which side is right but i guess both sides have some valid points.
I don't want to ruin my mood only because of this so i'm ignoring the community of this roms completly. For me the results counts more and there both roms deliver until now.


The main problem is that if you want a custom rom with AVB, highest Security and fastest updates you don't have other choices. All other custom roms that i know (for example LOS, AOSiP etc) aren't comparable regarding Security/Privacy cause they don't take enough care about this topics (for example many roms include Gapps which is a no go for the privacy-aware user).

@aral I was going to toot about #calyxos to know if that's good ... The MicroG was my first negative point... Now this ... I guess i'll stay with LineageOS for now on my Oneplus

@aral umm...
I watch techlore?
And I saw the vid where they compare calyxOS and grapheneOS?
And that doesn't sound like what I saw?
Also the same vid noted that you can install calyx with or without microg?
Idk man...
@aral like the thread claims they have a harassment campaign when last I heard techlore's stance was "grapheneOS is more private but CalyxOS has better performance, so try grapheneOS first to see if you can make do with that and otherwise switch to calyxOS, also here's a list of stuff that works with/without microg/gapps so you can see wether you need it"
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