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Morality is dead. It was smothered to death with a spreadsheet.

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@aral There are water wars happening in my valley. We formed a mob to close the diversion of a tribe upriver. Politicians intercepted us as said: "disperse. please. give us a week to talk with them."

A journalist was with us and afterwards I wrote to him with the following: ...

@aral

"For generations, we have let percolate the idea that we must look to ‘authorities’ to rectify ‘wrongs’ on our behalf. This is a wonderful idea as I'd rather spend my time enjoying my rights, than dealing with wrongs, but that doesn’t mean the institutions we have erected are the end-all-and-be-all of authority.

....

@aral

"...A politician’s job is not to hold meetings, run for reelection, draft laws, speak on our behalf, … no, those are simply means to achieve their sole purpose: to make sure men don’t fight. And when men are at the point of fighting, that means there is an implicit vote of no confidence in the political institution that serves at the mercy of the lack of our mercilessness.

....

@aral

"...Bureaucracies are not becoming more efficient, on the contrary, they are drowning under the weight of their own paperwork which, when not in one-to-one correspondence with the reality which they attempt to capture (or worse, when in contradiction to other pieces of paper they claim hold merit) are simply meaningless scribbles.

....

@aral

"...As you spend more time in our valley, you will see many fairy tale concepts deemed ‘truth’ that are in fact, conveniences that are quickly running their course: ‘paper water’, ‘beneficial use’, ’sovereign nation’, ’the dollar.'"

<the end>

@aral that would be post-modernism rather than a spreadsheet, in the "post truth" world burocracy and its ways of thinking become only evil #KISS

@hamishcampbell @aral I dont think you understand the words you are using. Post-modernism has little to do with any of this.

@bananarama interesting that you say this, can you explane to me in #KISS terms why you baleve this. I have a MA in social sciences so can understand complexity, But this is a public #openweb conversation so good to try and keep it at a level that "normal" people can understand.

Maybe we could start with meta narratives, will put Wikipedia links in as we go en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metanarr

NOT, we are interested in the "Criticism" bit of each link, reply to this please.

@hamishcampbell post modernism is the philosophy coming from criticism of modernism. thats it. metanarratives and whatever else dont matter. these are labels of (usually) chronologically related ideas.

if wikitionarys definition is too hard for you to understand, dont use the word until you can come to understand it. I dont throw random russian words at people and expect them to make sense out of it. thats rude.

@bananarama

OK lets leave the second pratish paragraph for now as that's clearly unhelpful.

Focus, Yep, it's a criticism of big stories (meta narratives) as modernism is based on "big stories" for example ideology,

#pomo is a criticism of modernism. BUT from a modernist prospective it's just another ideology - and from a post-modern prospective its a meta narrative that denies the posserbilerty of any such thing.

@jasper @aral yep #pomo is a convenient fit for neo-liberalism that has damaged the last 40 years of our society and eco system.

So yes greed pushing this ideology is a good look at the #deathcult so I agree with you :)

@witchescauldron @aral i'd sooner trace it back.. well.. who knows. But allegedly WWII was something they learn from.

They formed the UN. They did not learn from their mistake, the greatest powers vowed for tear up the charter founding they did not have a special veto.

Of course greed plays a big role. But suppose delusions of grandeur of "your" empire too..

@witchescauldron @aral postmodernism has nothing to do with it as far as i am concerned.

@jasper that's fine, just pointing out that lift the lid and the whole neoliberal project is completely combatable with the dominant philosophical ideology on the last 40 years. This is not an accident.

Interesting to realise this is covered here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_and

@witchescauldron when i think what drives the choices of output of various media outlets, which capital affords, it does not seem like postmodernism is it.

I am not really well versed in it. But relativism about truths and disinterest in truth in favor or careerism or consumerist hedonism could easily be mistaken for each other.. Even if that's a "synergy" of the thing, i think the money side of that dominates. I don't think it's is a high-minded philosophy behind this stuff..

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