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You, with your laser eyes, telling me Bitcoin is environmentally friendly.

Me, with my block button, blocking your whole damn domain.

@aral the most laughable claim I hear is it will encourage generation of renewable electricity 😂

This, when most of the miners were coal powered until China cracked down (one of the few instances recently when I'm unequivocally in favor of something their govt did)

@michel_slm And let’s say, just for the sake of argument, that some miracle happened and it was 100% renewable energy. So what? Is energy infinite? What’s the opportunity cost of, by design, wasting that amount of energy just to prove you’ve wasted it? What else could be done with that energy? Ditto for every other proof-of-work cryptocurrency.

@aral @michel_slm and the "but the financial sector also wastes energy" hot take is also rich (ha!).

It's basically a "Mom, but Johnny also pollutes". Just because somebody else does something bad doesn't make it okay for you to do something bad.

I mean, this is elementary school level.

@rysiek @aral @michel_slm

China didn't just crack down for environmental reasons, the mining rigs were causing odd demand patterns in remote areas *and* overloading the grid and generation infrastructure to the point that fires occured in power stations and substations, this is an clear immediate threat to public safety that any country is going to clamp down on very quickly....

@vfrmedia @aral @michel_slm yup. And now a lot of that migrated out to Kazakhstan. I'm sure it will promote green power there very nicely. 🤦‍♀️

@rysiek @aral @michel_slm

Even KZ govt has been restricting mining for the same reasons - they use the same equipment as China (or Europe or any other 230V country), there is a hard limit to how much power can be drawn from the grid and local distribution networks before bad things happen (and rises in energy prices also fed into the cause of riots there earlier in the years). Crypto power demands will also soon conflict with requirements to charge EVs in many countries...

@rysiek @aral @michel_slm I don’t like btc at all, but the argument is that the energy/value ratio is better (which I don’t think it is).

@filipe @aral @michel_slm it is not: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_

There are cryptocurrencies that actually try to address that, but somehow they keep not being hyped much. I'm sure it is not connected with how gas/transaction fees work in cryptocurrencies where mining is a thing.

@rysiek @filipe @aral @michel_slm There might be cryptocurrencies which are relatively green, but they probably are based on proof of stake which brings other issues.

Something like GNU Taler seems like it could be viable.

@filipe @bob I saw aral mention that a while ago. It still uses PoW but as an anti flooding mechanism. Having experimented with the algorithms in the past I know that any PoW is not going to work on mobile or in any low energy computing arrangement.

@bob depends on the difficulty! Nanos pow is very easy to solve. Just did one on my iPhone! :)

{
"hash": "397ABAA735F08B877B7568396CEE164E3783173BDDD2DC38A73EA321C68AA480",
"work": "8b3a223a69d97b24"
}

@bob plus, nano is not about pow (like others are) since it’s not part of the consensus.

There are plans to remove PoW completely! forum.nano.org/t/time-as-a-cur

@bob that’s a payment system, not a currency right?

@filipe @bob It's a form of electronic money with anonymity similar to cash. afaik it is still in development.

@aral @michel_slm And on top of that, let’s also not pretend like cryptocurrencies are *harmless* energy waste, even if renewable/given opportunity costs: Bitcoin’s proof of work is a distributed partial preimage attack on a cryptographic hash function. (Most others are too.) It’s not *just* wasting energy, it’s spending lots of energy (partially) breaking a key ingredient of internet security. Is this really what we want to spend energy on?

@max @aral @michel_slm I think the incentive to break hashing algos was already there before ahah (and again I hate btc)

@filipe @aral @michel_slm Do you think “bad people were going to do it anyway behind closed doors” justifies turning it into a slot machine millions of GPUs run out in the open? Sure the incentives are always there, but doesn’t the possibility at an immediate known casino heist or three create very different perceived incentives from less directly incentivized and slower zero-day discovery efforts?

@max @aral @michel_slm no because the previous incentives FAR outweigh the ones crypto introduces. Imo

@aral Would love someone to write a script which auto-mutes those laser eyes dudes.

@aral

if you send money from bank A to bank B on friday afternoon

1) all weekend money is nowhere, they left A but did not come to B yet

2) do they switch servers durring weekend to be more enviroment firendly?

well, thats my experience in slovakia / europe.

I am not saying that crypto is best, I am trying to say that it is very good competition with state money

@aral Like literally someone saying it's environmentally friendly?

@aral It’s handy for terraforming Mars…. ….. …..? :mars_photo:

Maybe…

Nah!

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