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You create a system that rewards exploitation and then wonder why the greediest bastards always seem to rise to the top.

🤷‍♂️

Hint: maybe the whole concept of “the top” itself is flawed to begin with. Maybe we need better success criteria. Less psychopathic ones would be nice.

@aral Maybe we don't need success criteria at all...

@aral my few cents… forgive the pun!

Society should be judged based on the welfare of their least fortunate.

Communities larger than 150 begin to breakdown.

Money as defined by Dawkins as a formal token of delayed recipricoal altruism is a natural and healthy construct.

The endless pursuit of profit and rampant conversion of the living into precious inert is destroying us. Forget GDP. Consider Happiness Index or similar.

#Capitalism #Socialism #Politics #Evolution #Revolution

@aral how to educate the people as to what #capitalism really is?!! The slaves of the #corporatedictatorship believe the propoganda that commerce in general is capitalism...and that it isn't absolutely treacherous!

@aral
Western culture has always been based on exploitation. #capitalism is just the latest version.

@aral
For people who want to end capitalism I highly recommend you watch this video by @freeworlder - youtube.com/watch?v=6HyqpAEbY2

And if you're interested in this movement take a look at trade-free.org.

For those wanting a more comprehensive explanation, there are 2 books made by the @trom project that I recommend:
1. The origin of most problems
2. The money game and beyond
You can find these books and read them for free at tromsite.com/books

@aral @freeworlder @trom
I often hear people talk about ending capitalism, but its rare to find such well thought out comprehensive analysis of how capitalism originates and how can slowly move away from it. I hope that someone finds these resources helpful.

@futureisfoss So replace trading with sharing. Isn't that all based on good will? What happens when someone isn't liked by the community, which incentive will the community have to share?

How is this system going to deal with selfish people? Say a group of people refuse to share and continue trading. Can a trade-free system "overpower" that?

@loveisgrief

So replace trading with sharing. Isn't that all based on good will? What happens when someone isn't liked by the community, which incentive will the community have to share?


You can see a directory full of trade-free services here. These are some of the real life examples of people providing goods/services to others without asking anything in return. There might be many reasons why these people engage in volunteering, and it would differ from person to person. Personally I think its a good enough incentive to just like doing the work you do. In our trade-based society people are often forced to work jobs they don't like just to get their basic needs met, how is that any better ?

Say a group of people refuse to share and continue trading. Can a trade-free system "overpower" that?


To be clear, the trade-free movement isn't trying to ban trade and force everyone to share, that'd be kinda oppressive and more akin to slavery. Instead the goal here is to make trade obsolete by promoting trade-free goods & services. Its similar to how we make FOSS programs to make proprietary software obsolete, for example when we made linux now we don't have to rely on proprietary operating systems anymore. So as more and more FOSS programs pop up, the less we have to rely on proprietary ones. The trade-free movement is trying to do the same, but with trade instead of proprietary software. So the more trade-free projects we have, the less we have to rely on trade. This allows us to move away from trade one step at a time.

@aral I am curious, what do you think would be a better system? Do you think one exists? And do you think all forms of capitalism are bad?

My big problem with "ending capitalism" is: What do you mean by capitalism? And also: What are you going to replace it with?

I prefer to discuss specific policies and effects rather than broad, vaguely defined -isms. Two things that are often associated with capitalism are extreme concentration of wealth (which I oppose) and the free market (which I generally like). Is it possible to have one without the other?

There are forms of market socialism. And there are various aspects of socialism that can work very well in a capitalist system, like cooperative or worker ownership of companies, or even just serious wealth redistribution. And I'm fairly sure that those are a much better idea than a central plan-economy, for example.
@aral @mcv I hate when people glibly say "well it can't be any worse than what we have now!" Of course it can always be worse! I agree with you about the important of market type mechanisms for most exchanges with a fairer distribution of money and power. I'm a huge fan of cooperatives, returning some public sector things back to the public sector, and getting us back to the type of rebalancing tax codes and regulatory policies like we had before the neo-liberals put us on our current trajectory.
@mcv A alternative to capitalism doesn't necessarily need to be a centralized plan-economy....
@aral I think one crucial thing to remember is that humans are not born greedy, or bad, or nice, or racist, or whatever. It is always the environment that creates the behavior. I would personally say:

You create a system that rewards exploitation, competition, hoarding of stuff, trading, greediness, and then wonder why humans become like that.

;)
@aral @sparkit Yes, pushed by circumstances: scarcity, population, resources. Now by the massive trade game that we play globally. Societies are emerging, and the lack of resources, scarcity overall, threats, etc., created conditions for such competitive behaviors to emerge.

@tio @aral your post reminded of this little game I've seen a little while ago: ncase.me/trust/

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