mastodon.ar.al is one of the many independent Mastodon servers you can use to participate in the fediverse.
This is my personal fediverse server.

Administered by:

Server stats:

1
active users

@fedora “If this is a feature you believe people want, make the toggle switches off by default so folks can excitedly tell you how much they want to send data to Fedora/Red Hat/IBM.

Also, is this a feature in Red Hat Enterprise Linux?

…”

2/N

@fedora “…If not, and it’s something people will absolutely love, I hope it will be implemented for all your paying enterprise customers also. After all, I’m sure you’d hate for folks to think you believe corporations deserve privacy whereas people don’t. I have no doubt it will go down great with large corporations (they love profiling people so I guess that means they’d love getting profiled too, right? Unless they’re hypocrites, of course).”

3/3

@fedora Update: Looks like my post on Fedora’s forum has been unflagged now.

@aral post seems to be visible again, but I can confirm that it showed up as "hidden" just a few minutes ago.

@claudius @aral It was flagged by an automatic system as "potentially inappropriate", not sure why the UI lies and claims it was human decision to flag it. I manually approved the post so it's visible again.

@aral @fedora maybe they're still trying to make up their minds about whether they are, in fact, hypocrites.

@aral this response is amazing, thank you. please repost it from time to time to see if it will happen again.

@aral It definitely still shows up as hidden to me (not a user registered on the site).

@ceremus Ah, looks like they hid it again.

Whatever.

@aral @ceremus

"You called our cherished customers 'hypocrites'. I don't know what that means, but I am sure it's a slur."

Hidden. Reason: Badmouthing capitalism. :blobcatgiggle:

@mattdm @aral @ceremus

If you take the word literally, you are right.

But let's be honest for a moment: The Fedora Project still has close ties to Red Hat (like sponsoring and a percentage of project contributions, being the upstream source for RHEL, etc.).

Soo... I would argue that my statement "in principle" still stands.

@wakame @aral @ceremus

I'm not going to throw anyone under this very angry bus, but the community member who flagged that post as off topic is not a Red Hatter, and neither was the moderators who approved it.

I _am_ a Red Hatter, and whatever their corporate faults, I am happy to be paid full time to work on free and open source software built by an amazing community.

I don't believe anything on topic was removed from any of the discussion, except for a few extreme personal attacks.

@mattdm @aral @ceremus

FWIW: My opinions and statements were intended in relation to/"against" corporate stuff, not against individual people or the community.

Sometimes, emotions flare up against one practice or another, especially, well, if topics like opt-in/opt-out come up, (which also seems to be a clash of different philosophies).

But certainly nobody deserves to be thrown under figurative or literal busses for that.

And yes, for me personally, "opt-out" is a standard "corporate" tactic. But then again, I am only one person.

@gabek @aral Yeah unfortunately I expect to see more of this, especially from instances that set themselves up out of enthusiasm for technology and weren't interested in preparing for the people-problems that come with managing large community spaces.

Trust & Safety is a BRUTAL job when done correctly by people with experience, and even the "easy" calls will have one party walking away angry. That's just the nature of moderation, and it underlines just how much rides on getting it right.

@gabek @aral
These instances that have been moderating by vibes are NOT prepared for the realities that are coming to hit them as the fediverse grows. The mega-instances that have chosen not to invest in setting up T&S governance will be the first to fall.

@ceremus @gabek @aral

Yeah, community management is actually a professional discipline, believe it or not.

Even our tiny instance, which is like 1% of their size, has written moderation processes & policies, and vetted codes of conduct without ambiguity like "no advocacy".

Megainstances that intentionally grow massive owe more to the safety of their people than to treat things like a hobby.

@aral @ceremus Yeah ... this time it was flagged by an actual person, and your post was hidden by a moderator for being "off-topic". I don't understand nor do agree with this assessment, but I don't want to just override another moderator's decision here, either 😐

@decathorpe @ceremus It’s fine. Thanks for trying.

I won’t waste my time with the forums in the future and just share my thoughts here.

@aral @ceremus I'm not sure I like how this discussion is turning out either ... it's the first proposal that's being discussed on Discourse instead of the mailing list, and almost all the things people said would happen *did* happen (more or less arbitrarily hiding posts / splitting them off into different topics, etc.), which is definitely something we'll need to consider when deciding if we want to use Discourse for this in the future. 😑

@decathorpe @aral @ceremus

It wasn't me, but I looked now and, despite your follower count and all, I think I support that moderator's "off-topic" call.

This is a Fedora proposal. Fedora isn't RHEL, has no influence over RHEL decisions, and doesn't have "paying enterprise customers".

As someone else has pointed out, RHEL does have Insights. But ... that _really_ seems like a whole off-topic tangent.

@aral @fedora

This is an issue that will be of direct concern to RedHat's and IBM's stockholders. :D

It is well-known that "Opt-Out" mailing lists are worthless.

The only real value is with "Opt-In" lists.

By making the tracking Opt-Out, they are directly reducing the shareholder value, which is the exact opposite of what they are being paid to do.

Everyone receiving a salary that is directly involved with this situation is now personally liable to shareholder lawsuits. :D

@aral @fedora

Buy some stock, not so that you can reap the dividends, but so that you have a "Right To Sue" the C-suite personally over their decisions... :D

As Quell said "Make it personal." :D

@aral @fedora This feels backwards. If you truly believe its a default that most people will want and you up front about the option and what id does, why would not enable it?

@aral so this rules out "fedora is not red hat," right?

@fedora

@ged @fedora @aral

Wait, what? A post about RHEL in a Fedora discussion was marked as off topic, and you take that to mean ... what, exactly?

@aral @fedora
seems like that having a corporation based, for-profit baked distro was a very bad idea from the start. Thank you Fedora for the good times, but for my next setup i'll go for a real community based distro.
#fedoraLove #goodbye #debian

@aral @fedora

I must admit that as an open source app contributor, I like the idea of telemetry to improve usability. It feels like it'll be less work (than e.g. surveys) for results covering all your users. But this is a very nice observation, about the need to improve usability/engagement (given the impact on privacy, in a non-commercial context).