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Some folks are suggesting you get a FairPhone without Google’s apps from Murena and I’m very confused… why would anyone want to do that?
FairPhone is an ethical company that makes fair trade and environmentally-friendly phones. And FairPhone includes Google’s apps and promotes their use as a feature on their phones. As an ethical organisation, they would not do that if Google was in any way unethical. So Google must be at least as ethical FairPhone.
So why buy a version without Google’s apps?
@aral irony tags might be advisable ;-)
@aral Maybe some people don't think that Google is quite as ethical or friendly or trustworthy as Fairphone? Maybe, just maybe. 
@fuzzyface But FairPhone thinks they’re as ethical as they are or they wouldn’t include and promote their apps. Do you mean FairPhone are mistaken? :)
@aral I think that FairPhone might be asking people to take baby steps. First a repairable phone and then maybe in a few years get people to stop selling all of their privacy to the devil of capitalism. Gotta sell the phones to make any progress...
@fuzzyface Or maybe they took venture capital and are now trying to scale as quickly as possible so they can exit.
@aral @fuzzyface whataboutism? We talked about baby steps and this is where I see it too. Literally it is nowhere near realistic that a phone with dunno Ubuntu mobile or how it is called would sell or even get interest as much as the current one. It's different aims, packing everything under the term "ethical" is way too unspecific.
And after all they can take baby steps like flashing a custom ROM or next time buy it preinstalled with a different OS.
@aral @fuzzyface after all maybe they expand that and I hope so, that they will sell a version directly from them without Google.
But AFAIK it is not realistic today to only have that. And AFAIK google contracts forbit to sell a custom ROM phone if you sell the same with Android or so. Ask your politicians to change that, for it such contracts and enable a right to repair.
@rugk @fuzzyface Not whataboutism, no. If you’re talking about baby steps, it’s important to understand where you’re taking those steps towards. With venture capital your baby (or not so baby) steps are heading towards your exit. In other words, the sale of your company to a bigger company (like Google, for example) or to the public via an IPO. At which point your only mission is to provide quarter on quarter growth for your shareholders.
That implies only that FairPhone *believes* that Google is not and *would not* violate their ethical stances.
I'm going to assume that those folks who don't want Google's apps DIStrust Google more than they trust FairPhone.
@StevenSaus Con lo que he leído ya, desconfió de los dos. ¿Como vas a pensar que el diablo va a actuar bien?
Es el mundo al revés.
Desde que leí ese toot de Fairphone y Google estan juntos en no se que, ya no me gusta <fairphone, en serio.
Me iba a intentar comprar un Fairphone y ya no lo quiero.
Lo juro por la memoria de mi hermano mayor EPD.
@coloco @StevenSaus You realise my post (https://mastodon.ar.al/@aral/110978864673373831) is sarcastic, right? I’m trying to present the problem with FairPhone legitimising Google on their phone.
@aral Ok ok, no me di cuenta, disculpas.
@aral Man, this is why I have trust issues...
@aral We're operating in a flawed society and economy, and working toward an ultimate ideal sometimes involves compromises with what is currently in front of us. We are constantly deciding what we're willing to fight for right now and what gets us closer to our ultimate goal. We're sometimes wrong. In this way a company trying to be ethical sometimes finds itself in compromises to achieve what they view as a solution which gets them closer to their ultimate ideal.
The way out is through.
@burdickjp Pero es perder su ética. "Hacer concesiones· con el demonio?
No se , no se si es el camino.
Eso es casi como que Gargron se venda su instancia de .social y .online al mejor postor no? Casi casi, no se no se, no me gusta.
@aral Imperfect solutions for an imperfect world. Making steps in the right direction is still better than making no steps at all.
@decathorpe @aral
There's still room for discuss and criticism. Progress which is small enough can effectively never reach our goal. We must chart a path which makes pragmatic progress.
@decathorpe @aral Making one step forward on the x-axis and two steps backwards on the y-axis can be worse than making no steps at all.
@sudonymouse well, that's a matter of perspective, and depends on what's more important to you - how the physical phone is made, or the ethical implications of shipping certain software by default.
speaking for myself, I already use and depend on Google services (I also use a Pixel Phone, *shock*, *gasp*), so from my perspective, it's a step in the right direction.
for somebody who already only uses homebrew de-googled ROMs on their phone, this will of course be very different.
@voorstad *Phew!*
@aral or, reversing the statement, Fair Phone would be as ethical as Google.
Isn't there a GraphenOS?
@aral
I am with @tante on that topic https://tldr.nettime.org/@tante/110978603166903289
How can we recommend a fairphone to a distant relative who doesn't want and isn't willing to use anything but the google eco system? Hell even my sister doesn't want one because "its one of these tech-people things again"... And the tech people give ff flack because they are actually struggling to deliver system updates on a regular basis...
@aral
I think we are literally barking up the wrong tree here. It is the ecosystem suffering from similar issues as the Linux desktop - there is no recipie or guide that fits everyone and covers 90% of all cases average Joe got used to. Even myself struggled with simple things like CalDav and ask myself why on earth? If anyone can show me something as polished and functional as the fairphone with better support and corpo-ware optional and disabled by default and ootb working wrbdav pls tell me.