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@arudy @scott I understand, and please don't take this too harshly but that's exactly my point. If apps are not yet compatible then Wayland cannot be ready for production.
They should be working on it of course, I'm not denying that, but we have to be aware that distros are forcebly making new users use Wayland and the experience is anything less than functional it's a massive spanner in the works for onboarding new users
Refering to @aral 's point - if the dev's just respond with "No." and generally seeming as if they don't care rather than putting the pressure on the Gnome/Wayland/KDE/etc. devs to make things accessible then we have a real problem as a community.
@aral @paul @sotolf @arudy X and Wayland are both incomplete pieces of software, in different ways. The difference is that X11's incompleteness comes from core design problems, as opposed to immaturity. As far as we can see here, this isn't a problem with either X11 or Wayland, but a pain from the necessary transition. Wouldn't our efforts be better spent contributing to upstream projects suffering as a result of this transition rather than complain that the software is incomplete or nagging unrelated projects?
@scott @aral @paul @arudy I'm not a developer who does framebuffer and windowing stuff. I just use the one that works.
And I can complain as much as I want to, I'm not telling anyone to do anything, I'm not acting entiteled, I'm just saying that wayland does not work for me, so I won't use it until it does.
Not sure what your problem is.
And no, I won't use the more shit system just because it's newer, I will use it once and only once it actually works better than what already exists.
@scott @paul @sotolf @arudy@octodon.social Here’s the thing: KDE uses Wayland too and this issue with the on-screen keyboard doesn’t exist there. So should it be reported on the GNOME bug tracker? Yes. Is this nagging? Only if you see people reporting bugs as nagging.
But, again, I’m *this* close to switching to an operating system where reporting issues and/or talking about them publicly doesn’t lead to ad-hominem attacks because I’m sick of it.
@scott @sotolf @arudy As much as I love X, I'm sensible enough to admit a replacement is needed. Wayland though seems to have a "do it our way or else" point of view that I am not comfortable with.
So refering back again to @aral 's point - if the devs of certain distros/DEs/whatever just aren't listening to user issues then we have a real problem.
This is probably more a GNOME issue than others, but there are problems in others. I know, for example, that with wlroots you can't lock your workstation and turn your screens off for an extended period of time (say, overnight) and expect your WM to let you log in again in the morning. This is another open issue that's been open for ages because "hmph, not really bothered"
Yeah this is more a symptom of the shitty way that wayland is implemented, you can't cooperate on wayland, since you have to build up a whole monolith of a stack, which can't really offload things to other programmes. Either you do it all, or you can't use wayland. This is not something we can fix by contributing as it is a main design and philosophy behind wayland.