I first tried Windows around 30 years ago…
It’s now 2020, and Windows Terminal cannot pipe text into a file without corrupting it with additional characters.
Bill Gates is a billionaire. Steve Ballmer is a billionaire. Charles Simonyi is a billionaire. Paul Allen was a billionaire.
Please, tell me again about your fucking meritocracy.
If you want to try it for yourself, here (you’ll need Node):
1. Fire up Windows Terminal
2. echo 'incompetence' > perfected
3. 'fs=require("fs"); a=fs.readFileSync("perfected", "utf-8"); console.log(a)' | node
PS. In case anyone wants the workaround:
echo 'incompetence' | Out-File -Encoding ASCII perfected
@aral Good marketing*, not good product.
* Good marketing here doesn't necessarily mean any respect for the customers.
While GUI and WYSIWYG for everything per se are not bad ideas, I remember that trying to do anything beyond that was, well, not a pain really because I enjoyed digging up this stuff (at first at least), but rather prohibitively difficult, where to make any small modification you had to learn whole lot of their standards and APIs and install full-blown IDEs of theirs.
The learning curve was very steep there.
And I also remember having a lot of imaginary arguments with myself: MS is such a huge company and it has so many professional programmers working in it, so why this and that behavior was made as it was while it obviously could be done differently and better…
You know how this cognitive dissonance has been resolved…
@aral Tab completion is broken as well.
@aral is that the unicode bom
@aral does this get better if you use conemu?
(I basically cannot use the win10 vm thing that I have for work, or any win10, without conemu.)
You can install via chocolately... or of course via something else but I tend to use chocolatey because it's at least SOMEWHAT similar to a more sensible modern install system. SOMEWHAT. And yes all install systems suck...
Anyway am wondering if it is the abysmal thing that is the standard cmd.exe window, or if it is better with another...
oh actually you could see if it works in powershell first, that uses a different mechanism for doing console bits. It even supports truecolor. It still sucks (:
@mjd @aral judging by the comments on https://stackoverflow.com/questions/48848841/how-do-i-write-utf8-with-no-bom-to-console-no-file/48859679#48859679 even if you change the encoding for redirection in #PowerShell, it will still include the #ByteOrderMark. Though it might be possible in #PowerShellCore.
Doesn't take away though that these are horrible defaults and should just work regardless of what terminal you use...
I wonder if you can force it to use utf8 for files, instead of "oh, you want to use utf8! I'll make that utf16 for you."
will work, but that is just... silly.
65000 is UTF7.
I'd just go for "don't use Windows" (:
And for testing under Windows, ssh from your POP!os machine to the windows machine, and run it there... and see if THAT also has the BOM.
Ugh. I'll bet we run into some goofy things with the new product because of this UTF16 garbage and the Windows program that I wish we didn't have to use... but not my choice so...
@aral Interesting. Probably a UTF-8 BOM, which is a stupid idea by people who don't understand Unicode, namely Microsoft.
@aral Except that reading Wikipedia page further I realise that it probably isn't even BOM in UTF-8, but in UTF-16. Which is not surprising since UTF-16 is the encoding Windows uses internally. But that doesn't mean that node is broken either. You are just trying to read UTF-16 as UTF-8.
@aral that's probably only in Powershell, right?
Doesn't seem to do that in cmd - I guess it's a powershell bug?
@dheadshot Could be :)
@aral you certainly don't need me to tell you this, but --
those billionaires' ability to sell stuff was not based on what people want, or on what works correctly/elegantly, but on what people would put up with in their tools to achieve their goals.
computers are solely a means to not-computer-related ends for the vast, overwhelming majority of computer-using humanity.
i say this because many people in our industry can lose sight of that fact.
The same people that brought you edlin.
@oranje Hey, I liked Edlin.
(OK, I was like 8 or something.)
To me, edlin was an abomination. I hated it but forced myself to master it because it was on every dos computer.
@aral it is little to do with meritocracy and everything to do with monopoly. The average windows user has never used the terminal at all.
@aral Meritocracy is when talented people are put into power. This here is what happens when wealthy people are put into power.
@aral the cmd.exe is still the same crap for compatibility reasons.
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