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Linux folks: “my engine is better than that car. Why isn’t everyone driving my engine?”

Because we drive cars, not engines.

@aral Ahaha true. The mismatch in marketing budgets came to mind, but actually the 'complete' product is incoherent in 'linux' as a whole. Fair play to Canonical for trying something different.

In fairness, Linux has a massive share of some markets; maybe the customer mainstream one is just not the right one given the product fragmentation, perceived need for super-tech skills etc

@aral I agree to that comparison though.

Non *nix users want an easy to use effective product (the whole car) not something (the motor) they need to fit into something customizable (the rest of the car) parts.

@aral Also their engine's never better than anyone else's, but they get so upset when you suggest they try another one.

@aral
Appl maxOS. "eh, buddy, that's fine. Grab yourself an iPhone"
Linux. "Dude, it's GNU+Linux, actually. You need to RTFM before you are allowed in."

@claudius @aral it's XNU+darwin+macOS educate yourself please🤡

@claudius @aral

Appl maxOS: "Get an education first and a highly paying job then grab yourself in iPhone"
Linux: "Dude, it works on a $25 Raspberry Pi, ask your mom she probably can afford it."

@jeena @aral absolutely. This is why we must make the linux experience better and more welcoming for everyone. Right now, only rich people get to have a device that "just works". Linux is a very shitty experience unless you have either a) intimate knowledge about inner worksings of computers or b) some sysadmin-y friend on speed-dial.

@jeena @aral And I absolutely love that linux can teach you so much about computers. I just hate that is HAS to teach you so much about computers.

@jeena @aral Yes, this has gotten better over the past 20 years. No, it's still not in a place that works for everyone out of the box. I mean including long-term stability. People by and large can do iOS and android updates just fine. On Linux, I usually set aside a few hours for major updates.

@claudius @aral I installed Ubuntu for 3 people who didn't use computers before (no prior MacOS or Windows knowledge) Two children and one senior citizen. That was 3-5 years ago. One of the youngsters sometimes whines because he can't install some windows only application. The other two only use the browser. I set up automatic updates and they all seem to be able to use the computer for what they want to without me holding any hands.

I think it's possible already for normal people to use Linux.

@jeena @aral I also have linux installed in my family. But now I'm a part-time sysadmin there. Linux is absolutely possible to use. But if it breaks down, it's harder to fix by yourself.

@claudius I'm not sure I would say that it's easier to fix MacOS or Windows by yourself if it breaks down. At least if "fixing" means something else than reinstalling the operating system. But probably we have different expectations.

@aral
Yeah... it is more like:

You have choosen Linux as your engine. Please select all the other parts to build a car as you like it. If this is too much work feel free to choose a premade distribution (usable after a simple installation, modify as you wish at any time later on).
Be aware: Building/maintaining a car requires knowledge, everything you need is freely available to you but you will have to put some effort in to do so.

We all know how a Apple version of this would read...

@JoachimM That’s a whole lotta words just to say “build your own damn car!” :)

@aral
Much better than "Here is a damn expensive car, use it how we think you shoud or f*** off peasant!" isn't it?

@JoachimM If those were the only two options, yes. They’re not.

@aral
Ofcourse they are not. I replaced Windows with ArcoLinux on my moms laptop. She has way less "computer issues" now. And if something breaks I can fix it a lot easier than before, without having to deal with corporate bs. People sitting in a golden cage and crying about all those birds outside of it, bc they have to use their wings to fly is really wierd to me. If someone likes their shiny bars, fine. There is no "one size fits all" and there never will be.

@JoachimM The problem that needs to be solved is the “I installed” part. You’re not scalable. And if we want everyday people who use technology as an everyday thing (you know, like brain surgeons and astronauts who don’t have time to install stuff and tweak settings because they have brain surgery and a trip to space in the morning) to use our alternatives, they must work without requiring Joachim to install it for people.

@JoachimM Otherwise, yes, even Richard Stallman can use Linux as long as someone else with the technical knowledge installs it for him.

ind.ie/archive/summit/videos/r

@aral
I do not see a problem regarding to scalability. I see the main problem in the unwillingness of people to change. Humans tend to stick to what they know as long as possible. Modern Linux is as easy to install and use as Windows (MacOS is hell to install on non Apple hardware). My mom f.e. will ask "How do I read my email?" (on a fresh install), doesn't matter what OS. Sad truth is most people just don't care enough and will only invest time and efford when they are forced to do so.

@aral
If someone doesn't have the knowlege to install a OS, there is always someone else who will provide this service. But people are happy buying from companys like Apple, bc it is what they know. They happily pay 2x for the worse product if they don't have to invest a thought about a better alternative.

@JoachimM @aral As someone who has been using Linux off and on for over 20 years, and continuously side-by-side with windows for over 10 years, I can tell you that this is not the case.
Windows is the lower maintenance system. And if I'm counting obscure hardware, then it's not even close any more. The number of times I needed to fix basic shit like "suspend to disk" or software that didn't want to show up on a task bar or dock or something like that is embarrassing.

@JoachimM @aral Even with a high-profile distro like ubuntu, you need to make sure you check all the hardware before buying. Oh, you selected the XYZ Wifi card? Yeah, shit, that won't work.
I am fully aware that this particular thing is not linux' fault. But assigning blame does not get a user any more damn wifi.

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