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web0 manifesto

“…web0 is web3 without all the corporate right-libertarian Silicon Valley bullshit.”

web0.small-web.org

Sign your name and join me in starting the year as you mean to go on: without tolerating any bullshit.

Happy New Year! :)

@aral oh no - not that travesty. the real metaverse that we have been building all the time, but with the possibility of more dimensions and richer interactions.

@tomasekeli I’m afraid we’re going to have to call it something else :)

@aral @tomasekeli Eh, it's been a thing since before Facebook renamed themselves, let's not let them take it away from us!

@tomasekeli @aral Sounds neat! ... –ugh.

I don't like that whole "you Must Agree and it is Inevitable" stuff.

But the basic ides of "the metaverse is for all of us" is yeah.

@aral i think building that (virtual-reality/augmented-reality/extended-reality/spatial) on anything but the open web is a frightful mistake.

@aral I got "sorry" your site isn't loading. It forces me to use crypto on my public web site, but in #smallEngineering we have reservations against crypto *everywhere*, because it causes yet more energy wasting..

@gert Hey, you might have hit it just as I was updating it (literally several seconds) :) Sorry!

@aral Sorry, our sanitised version of the link you provided (se.citiwise.eu/index.html) isn’t loading for us.

Reason, it is http

@gert @aral Ward Cunningham has a similar fight against HTTPS pushed by and thus also with Google. We happily ran our Federated Wiki on the web and authenticated against the empire, until they wouldn't, anymore. Because we're not on the right side of the web anymore. And have to follow suite, if we want to remain relevant.

@ailurocrat I’m afraid there isn’t a provision for that. But when you do have it… :)

@ailurocrat @aral what if you just put the link of your mastodon profile, or something like that ?

@ailurocrat PS. You could just link to your mastodon profile :) (Just saw someone do it; sorry I hadn’t thought of it earlier.)

@aral I don't understand the need to include blockchain when federated systems like #Mastodon and #Matrix already seem to work well? What am I missing?

@michael There isn’t a need; that’s why it’s not included :)

@aral Ah, apparently what I'm missing is functioning eye sight 😅

@aral Good start into the new year, indeed! Signed, of course 😃

@aral i don't understand, what does it mean to sign your website? what does that signify?

I got "Error: certificate has expired" for lxoliva@fsfla.org, but fsfla.org's certificates don't seem to be expired from my end, not for https, not for smtp starttls. help?
@aral

What does this even mean? What you're calling web0 is just the web. What's the point of this at all?

@danjones000 The web we have today is centralised. Google, Facebook, and other closed silos serving millions (sometimes billions) of people is not a decentralised system. That’s the point of this. Glad to wake up and see from the signatures that at least a few other folks agree :)

@aral

I disagree with your basic premise. Certain websites/web services are centralized, but the web itself is not (if you ignore Cloud flare, screw them). Anybody can still publish their own website, regardless of whether it's on Facebook or not.

But setting that disagreement aside for a moment, your explanation still doesn't explain the point of the petition. Is it to get rid of centralized web services? Get rid of this Web3 nonsense? Or just a promise not to build some Web3 Blockchain thing? I don't see an actual started purpose here. Just some very vague statements.

I feel like I'm missing something obvious.

@danjones000 It’s so we have an alternative term to use when describing what we do.

Oh, you’re doing web3?

No, we wouldn’t touch that shit, we’re working on web0.

It’s to counter the right-libertarian/Silicon Valley/corporate attempt to capture the narrative around the promise of a decentralised web.

PS. It’s cool if it doesn’t speak to you. It doesn’t have to speak to everyone. Part of the purpose is to find the people who it does speak to so we know who’s working on similar stuff.

@aral

I agree with the basic idea. And it’s clear from the page how you’re defining these things. It’s just unclear from this page what people are signing their name for.

Are they pledging to support web0? Or to oppose web3? Or is this a petition to take down web3 projects?

My whole point in asking “what is this” is to get clarification on the purpose of this page: in particular, what are people signing up for, since there’s no actually stated purpose?

@aral

And to be clear, since I think I was unclear: I disagree with your statement that the web is currently centralized. I would say that major web services are centralized, but the basic technology is, and always has been, decentralized.

I agree with your goal to promote a simple web that’s in the control of the people.

@aral hmm maybe I have some DNS issues with the mail server?.. I checked security and it seems sound.

@jonn Interesting, I’ll look into it (and add a word break style rule to the error message) :)

The email functionality is hand-rolled so I’m going to be improving it based on reports like this.

@aral I honestly think it's my misconfiguration... Which is really strange, I used to pass Google's DNS checker, but yesterday I checked again and it failed... But I tried to send spoofed E-Mail via the `mail.doma.dev` server and it seems impossible...

@aral but please tell me more about the error. I send and receive mail from mail.doma.dev w/o problems...

@jonn OK, so I just looked into it properly (and improved the layout of the error page).

The error is from your email server. It’s basically blacklisted the IP or IP range or domain of our server. This can happen if people blacklist the web host (in our case, Hetzner).

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