We would likely fork Firefox, remove all the Silicon Valley/commercial bullshit, and hire engineers from Mozilla and elsewhere who want to work somewhere where they have the freedom to work on a browser for the common good without any Silicon Valley/commercial interference.
Ahem, an independent organisation lobbying for a public-funded web browser is technically just as much “political interference” as Google lobbying for the opposite. Any government or international structure such as EU is the sum of political interferences, and it’s only a problem when these are not balanced or some stakeholders are not represented.
@xro @kravietz @aral it's a good/bad path, people would be pushing on a open door at the #EU to folk Firefox at mo... Would need a soughted crew and likely in the end get to the same #NGO place that we are in now. A good outcome could do something in the "space" a move like this would open a "commons" for a while #OMN
@witchescauldron @aral In Germany the public media is separated to some degree from short-term politics by separating financing from government decisions. There are people who rally against this, but it is one of the reasons there’s a minimum standard for quality of news that the privates don’t dare to undercut too much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licence#Germany
@firstname.lastname@example.org have a call to action once you dissociate with big corporations. Ask the community of people to fund, ask them and the content creators to promote.
We all want the same thing, so we can achieve it.
@aral Funding is the issue. I however lean in the direction that software should be crowd funded. That way, actual people are in the control of the project as opposed to organizations.
We need a paradigm shift. We expect everything from the internet to be free. But we need to normalize to give back to creators. We need systems that makes it easy, secure, private and convinient to tip. In a way that preserves autonomy.
@vega If only there was a concept where we could all give a portion of what we make to crowdfund things for the common good… I don’t know, we could call it Raxes? Saxes… ? Something like that ;)
this is why I look at Gnome, Kde, Enlightment, any other desktop anv
AND to clw's work
because if we have hte data, we can also support the mantaining of our GUI layer (whatever that is)
In order to have a sustainable frontend, you need the ability to flood it with data
That's the hack we suffered with the web
We should do it again
@aral The challenge is also very much political, as well as it is societal.
EU is not that far from openly asking for the same tools/level of control and means to track its 'users', once upon a time called citizens. Maybe not to make gigantic piles of money but that doesn't change their willingness to access and use the exact same tools. And have them developed if need be.
The tracking (as much as our willingness to live with it) is the issue, more than it being commercial or not. Imho.
@aral You are absolutely right, funding is the most challenging part. And you need it for two things - one is development, the other is basically lobbying or campaigning. You can start with either, but will need the other eventually:
if you secure initial funding, hire devs, and create a fork, you'll need to eventually invest in some form of monetization or marketing to convince EU citizens and/or politicians to fund the project.
if you secure initial funding and use it for lobbying/campaigning, you might eventually have enough funds to maintain the project in the long run but will then need to start hiring devs.
In either scenario you'll also have to overcome the overall community's reluctance to invest in the marketing/campaigning/lobbying part.
If you want it to be a robust, sustainable project, it's more about organizing and leading the effort than forking the code.
@aral I'm not sure where to stand on this. Is forking the best option? Are there design baggage if we use firefox code? Wrong assumptions about how the browsing experience should be?
Perhaps by developing a browser from scratch we will have a better understanding of how the browser can be developed further?
If so, then in the long run it might be better to start from scratch.
@aral check history of Cliqz. They started as extension to develop browser (ff fork) to reach search engine. Many, many talented engineers and political contacts to highlight value of EU based solutions. It's full colour story: Dark abyss of financial background, wrong decisions but also interesting story about privacy. Next to lecture you will reach ppl from Mozilla land ;)
@aral what's your pitch though?
* Ignore third party requests entirely
* Start an arms race to block all tracking
* Encourage websites to move away from using third party tracking links, and then remove them
Because the third option still sounds positive to me.
This is my personal Mastodon.