@aral Not just a sponsor, but a Platinum sponsor.

The thing about Google and Facebook sponsoring all the major tech and privacy-related conferences is that how likely is a speaker to be accepted if they are critical of those companies, and how much self-censorship will occur out of fear of insulting the Platinum sponsor and not being invited back again.

@bob @aral

ROFTL! ! ! 🤣

Kuhn invited me to meet him and Fontana at #FOSDEM when I proposed the #HackingLicense to #Debian...

When I explained him that since a #Google engineer removed my name from #Harvey without removing my contribution, I'm going to carefully vet anything that comes from @conservancy, he didn't wrote me back.

Now they organize a #Copyleft conference with Google!

I really want to believe in good faith, but people... you are really challenging my suspension of disbelief!

@Shamar @conservancy @aral A question is whether they really needed the Google sponsor money. From a 2019 software freedom perspective it seems especially inappropriate to be promoting these big tech companies.

@bob @aral @conservancy

The means are to goals what the seeds are to trees.

I'm not a #moralist, I don't give a shit about how they collect their money as long as they use them well.

But this is like making a conference on #inequality sponsored by #Bezos.

It has a clear message:

Please, don't fight this battle too hard because if you win, we won't be able to fund conferences about the topic anymore!

@Shamar @bob @aral @conservancy I'm no expert on the FOSS politics, but every FOSS conference I see is sponsored by big corps (even Microsoft).

I think too many SV techbros are "caught in the monkey trap" where they literally cannot see anything other than neoliberal capitalism, especially when GAFAM provides them with what they view as secure, stable employment

Maybe like workers elsewhere continuing to work in coal mine or making cars that cheat environment regulations to stay in work..

@vfrmedia @conservancy @aral @bob @Shamar

On the FOSS politics, apart from everything already known about Google I expect that this year might be the one where they formally launch Fuchsia and begin on the road towards deprecating the Linux kernel. Fuchsia will be technically Free Software but not copyleft and the design of its architecture will be controlled by Google, allowing them greater opportunities for data exfiltration and inserting ads in a manner which can't be blocked.

@aral @conservancy @bob @vfrmedia

> #Fuchsia will be technically
> #FreeSoftware but not
> #copyleft [...] controlled by
> #Google, [...] inserting #ads

Sorry, @freedombone, but given who control Google, unblockable Ads are the last of my concerns: medium.com/@giacomo_59737/the-

@vfrmedia
it pains me to say, but we should have listened rms when he said all those things about why the open source movement was created and how it opposes the freedom software movement.
rms can be too extreme and strange sometimes, but he had it right about this whole thing since the beginning.
@Shamar @bob @aral @conservancy

@Shamar
i read that some days ago. it was really good to see how sensible your points are.
@bob @aral @conservancy @vfrmedia

@Shamar
and not only this text. i read and learned many things from your writings. i'm still digesting this whole lot of information. many thanks for all that.
@bob @aral @conservancy @vfrmedia

@Shamar @bob @hansbauer @conservancy @vfrmedia Sorry you had to go through that. I was blasé about the differences too (& used to see Free Software folks as zealots) until I had a proper chat with Richard and understood the history and the motivations of the different sides. Everything I’ve experienced since has simply validated the stark differences.

@bob
we must see through the memes. the man lives be his words, is really under appreciated, and was mostly right about his points, as the time has proven. his maybe very excentric, but he must be given his deserved credits.
@aral @Shamar @conservancy @vfrmedia

@hansbauer @bob @aral @conservancy @vfrmedia

I don't think that #RMS is mostly right, actually. IMO, he is often VERY wrong. And on some points, he is way to moderate (yes, I mean this for real! 😉).

But he is a #hacker with an unique point of view on Free Software.

He doesn't have super powers, just the #curiosity to look what others prefer to ignore and the
#IntellectualHonesty to say what he sees.

@Shamar
maybe i'm a bit biased when i say that he is mostly right, because many times i dismissed somethings he said as some tinfoil thing, but some 10 years later it turned clear that he was right all along.
i'm not claiming that he is a kind of messiah (i know many do), just had to give him some deserved credit.
@bob @aral @conservancy @vfrmedia

@Shamar @bob @aral @conservancy @vfrmedia
every time i read "big corps going open source", i see "outsourcing research, code and people's lives without cost".

@hansbauer @Shamar @bob @aral @conservancy

that is precisely what Redmond has done/is doing, you can see for yourselves the layoffs in richer countries and how at least a proportion of support work has ultimately been crowdsourced.

Its seems even worse than late 1980s, when the kid who learned about computers and tech *did* at least normally get a full time salaried job (rather than constantly hustling in "gig economy" like todays young people seem to be..)

@vfrmedia
it seems they have the understanding of "free as in free beer" in foss.
open and without costs for them.
@Shamar @bob @aral @conservancy

@hansbauer @Shamar @bob @aral @conservancy @vfrmedia

Do they contribute less to their own code than they were before open-sourcing it?

Do people contribute changes they don't need for themselves to such projects?

@Wolf480pl
in the android case, i think they will probably drop the linux kernel too in favor of their zirkon one, probably related with licenses and the inclusion of vendor binary blobs and silent updates. but this only a speculation of. mine. time will tell.
but the idea is to build an evil product over the open source community and then discard the community in the end.
@Shamar @bob @aral @conservancy @vfrmedia

@Wolf480pl
i cannot speak for the whole open source community in this respect and even if i could i would not.
i had in mind something like what google did and does with android:
> mobile operating system, whole base foss
> build a full-blown control and surveillance framework over it, discarding parts that are not in line with this
@Shamar @bob @aral @conservancy @vfrmedia

@hansbauer @bob @aral @conservancy @vfrmedia

#RMS deserves credits, for sure.

Most of what he said or wrote about Free Software is right.
Moderate, but right.
newleftreview.org/II/113/richa

Yet some of his opinions are simply and overly disgusting to me: stallman.org/archives/2016-sep

When I defend his right to say weird things, I also hold him accountable for everything he says!

He is the son of his #Culture, of the #hegemony of #US #Capitalism.
Just like I'm the son of #European and #Italian #history.

@Shamar
oh yes... i was talking about what he said about free software x open source.
about the other things like this one and others (even worse) ones, i surely hold him accountable too. no blind eyes for anything or anyone.
@bob @aral @conservancy @vfrmedia

@Shamar @bob @conservancy “The means are to goals are what the seeds are to trees.”

This.

Or, as I’ve often said, you plant a bullshit seed and you get a bullshit tree.

:indieHeart:

@Shamar @bob @aral @conservancy
Do they actually use any copyleft license for any of their own software? From what I can see, they're mostly using Apache and BSD.

@bob
ID gladly take the zuccbuccs and have people shit on him. It might be a one time deal tho
@aral

@bob @aral

This is similar to when Coca-cola sponsors nutrition studies.

@aral You are aware, however, that Google is member of the Open Innovation Network, as well as on the board of the GNOME foundation and in the list of donors of the FSFE? We have a funding problem for #SoftwareLibre or #EthicalSoftware ... 😐

LB -- fucking yikes. Like just... no. That's so unfortunate. I would bow out / freak out if I were trying to speak there.

@aral If anyone is attending the first copyleft conference, which I suppose will be a landmark, I would suggest a talk topic such as:

"A survey of tech conference sponsors: the ethics of influence"

We agree sponsors shouldn't control content. Unlike most other conferences, we never sell keynotes or talk spots & we don't give sponsors access to program committee. #Copyleftconf sponsors get a thank you but no control. "Saying thank you"!="Saying they're the 'good guys'".

@conservancy So say “thank you” to the House of Saud too then, they also have a lot of money.

Why doesn’t the American Lung Association say thank you to Philip Morris? Why doesn’t Greenpeace say thank you to Exxon Mobil?

Clearly you don’t see Google as a bad actor or you wouldn’t have taken their money.

I can only surmise that you do not have a problem with surveillance capitalism.

@conservancy

> "Saying thank you"!="Saying they're the 'good guys'".

This is incredibly naive to say.
#Lawyers are not naive, usually.

Are you going to thank a burglar that send you back your family photos?

#Google is a threat to #FreeSoftware in itself, beyond the social issues that @aral point out.

To collect data, they need to control the software: they are structurally incompatible with users' #freedom to modify the software, able to cap who was at #CopyleftConf and thus what was said.

@aral and all, I did some legal/law study on the status of Software Freedom Conservancy and found out that luckly it's a 501(c)(3) charity organization, highly regulated in the USA and that which must act for the public good. From the documents in their website and also on the conference one tells me that they are fine and upstanding in their charge to act in the public good. Nothing here convinces me otherwise. See sfconservancy.org/blog/2018/oc , sfconservancy.org/about/filing , 2019.copyleftconf.org/sponsors .

@adfeno All the worse if they are fine and upstanding: the problem here is that they are legitimising surveillance capitalists. The more fine and upstanding they are the worse (better) the legitimisation.

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