And, finally (there’s so much more but I’ll stop raving now and get back to work), the web-related features, like a built-in accessibility and scripting panel and access to the SVG source, styling, etc.

If you’re creating illustrations for the web (or, heck, in general) and you’re not using this absolute gem of an app, you’re missing out :)

#svg #web #design #vector #illustration

Ah, so the business model is that the app is sold on the Mac App Store and it’s free everywhere else. I’m totally cool with this.

Could still be open sourced under AGPL (like Better was) but I’m more than happy to see an indie developer making a living from an excellent app they’ve made.

@aral
Alas, we can't use anything but open/commons software. We work in collaborative networks where everybody needs to be able to use all of the software (if they want) or it will hurt the network.

@bhaugen I don’t understand… it’s free on free/open systems. So if you cannot use anything but open/commons software, you should be fine as everyone should be running Linux or some other free/open OS where they can use it for free. If someone is running macOS, which is where they have to pay for it, they’ve already violated your pledge to not use anything but open/commons software.

@aral Thanks, sorry I misunderstood myself. If it's free on Linux. that's good. Better would be open to modification and extension. I'll keep looking and see if I can figure that out...

@aral An old thread, but just stumbled on it. So, to be clear - Boxy SVG is free (gratis), but not free (libre). So if it's proprietary, it's not open/commons software. Or am I missing something?

@bhaugen

@barrysampson
> Boxy SVG is free (gratis), but not free (libre).

Several variations on free (gratis) vs buy-for-money at the bottom of their home page. https://boxy-svg.com/

Oddly, some of that page works on Chrome but bot Firefox...?

@aral

@bhaugen I'm just confused about whether or not being free (gratis) makes it open/commons software?

@aral

@barrysampson @aral

I think it depends on what you can do with it, which might be spelled out in a license or other set of permissions.

Otherwise a published work in the US is automatically covered by copyright.
https://www.thebalancesmb.com/what-is-automatic-copyright-protection-3514945

@bhaugen That's interesting, thank you.

@aral Not only is it not open, it not even a _web_ app.

@aral If humans had access to their basic needs as trade-free, at least that, then we could see so many amazing things and projects happening, from online to offline. We should "demand" for this. We can't do good things while being always stressed about the rent, and food, and surviving....

@aral Robin Hood/20, awesome !

@aral It's a bit more discriminatory. If you open the page with Safari, the only option is to buy the app. No editor. If you open the page with Chrome, it shows. That's kinda harsh, IMHO. Browser is browser. A website shouldn't reduce functionality just to sell the app. IMHO.

@aral Chrome v Safari on the same machine. Seeing how it supports even Opera, I can hardly imagine technical reasons for refusing to run the app on Safari.

@jwildeboer @aral
It doesn't work in Firefox either, so it seems to require the Chromium engine.
The app is available on Flathub and Snap Store for free, for $$ only on AppStore. Perhaps to cover the mandatory developer fees?

@sesivany @aral Ah, yes. Chrom{e, ium} engine required. That explains it.

@jwildeboer @aral for me, opening with Safari shows me a message saying “to use the web app, open this page with [list of chrome based browsers]”.

Might just be a compatibility thing, since Safari and Firefox are just about the only browsers left that use a different engine.

@T045T @aral so much for the Open Web based on Open Standards :(

@jwildeboer @T045T What are you talking about, of course it’s an gOpen Web based on gOpen Standards.

PS. The g is silent.

@aral @T045T Back to Gopher and Xanadu ;)

@aral And @T045T - the website promises "Boxy SVG project goal is to create the best tool for editing SVG files.[...] On any device and operating system." Which seems to really mean "ATM free for Chrome based browsers and Linux folks, Apple users please pay" - I am not saying it's wrong, but it does come over as misleading to me.

@jwildeboer @aral @T045T Jan, is everything misleading that is not either pay for license or open-source free as in free beer? I agree on the browser piece though as it does not support firefox. Probably they program against the chrome extension API, not simply doing HTML5 and javascript.

@rigo @aral @T045T It is an app/browser thingy that only works works on a chrome based engine. Which ignores Firefox and tells Safari users to pay $19,99 for a MacOS app. One can find that cool, I just am not that convinced. I'll prefer Inkscape which Just Works for my SVG Workflow.

@jwildeboer @aral @T045T after all the enthusiasm of the early days and the heavy headwind afterward, I'm still amazed that you have a SVG workflow! ✌️

@aral @rigo @T045T if your sarcasm makes you feel good, happy to add. I still fight for open standards. Call me naive or stupid if you want. I’m used to that.

@jwildeboer @aral @T045T Hahaha, it is funny you take it as sarcasm while I'm genuinely pleased 🙂 Language, Emission, Reception, complicated... The more its foreign language, the more there are holes you can fall into. BTW, I still have all the SVGs that Bob Hopgood wrote by hand that crashed all the Adobe SVG software and were still conformant 😅

@T045T @aral @rigo Good for you. While I happily use SVG in non-destructive ways.

@jwildeboer @T045T @aral at some point we had hoped that SVG would replace the javascript hell (security/privacy) and disarm the gif patent disaster. But this hope did not materialize.
Now we have a nice format for vector graphics, which is an achievement. I want to thank Chris Lilley for his relentless support for SVG.

@jwildeboer @rigo @T045T Jan, it’s an indie app with no tracking or any other bullshit by a sole developer who is actually attempting to make a living from it (instead of, say, working at Google or Facebook during the day for a six figure salary and contributing to “open source” on the weekends) so I’m going to celebrate the shit out of it :)

(I also spoke with him over email yesterday & he’s anti-VC and said the only way he’d sell it is if it’s open sourced as part of the deal. Works for me.)

@aral @rigo @T045T It would be nice if he could add the simple line "Requires Chrome based browser or local app" or "your browser is not supported" on Safari and Firefox.

@jwildeboer @aral @rigo @T045T I see this right on the front page.
I'm sad about not being able to use it in #Firefox, but this tells me quite clearly I won't be able to.

@aral

@apps is also a great example. #FediLab is a paid app on the #Google Prey store, and free on the fine #FDroid with a #GPL'ed codebase at #Codeberg ..

https://codeberg.org/tom79/Fedilab

@aral
Pity that it doesn't work with Firefox, though.

@humanetech @aral @apps love the wordplay on google's app store

@midline @aral